Dan: 0:00

Michael Rejent is an air traffic controller. So the top of the tower where the controllers work is called the cab and it's stocked with high-tech equipment. And one of the most effective tools he uses to do his job, it's called a window.

Michael: 0:17

You're gonna catch an error much more quickly with your eyes out the window than you will looking at the ground radar. That's why it's really important because you would be like, oh, there's no way that guy's gonna stop, you know, if you're looking at it out the window. Like, I told him to hold short of Juliet. I know he's not gonna do it. So you would you'd call him up on the ground, hey, Delta four thirty five, just hold short of Juliet.

Dan: 0:41

So it turns out there's a good reason controllers work from the tallest perch on the airfield surrounded by glass.

Michael: 0:49

You know, it's a good way to make sure that what you think is happening is happening.

Dan: 1:07

I'm Dan Heath, and this is What It's Like to Be. In every episode, we walk in the shoes of someone from a different profession, an aircraft carrier commander, a pharmacy technician, a baker. We wanna know what they do all day at work. Today, we'll ask Michael Rejent what it's like to be an air traffic controller. We'll talk about what happened when a jet he hadn't cleared for takeoff took off, the puzzles he solves to keep jets from bunching up, and the pilot's words that put the whole tower on alert, stay with us. One quick note before we keep going here. Michael still works in the world of air traffic control, so he asked us to share this message.

Michael: 1:56

The views expressed here are my own and do not constitute an endorsement official policy or position of the Federal Aviation Administration or the Department of Transportation.

Dan: 2:07

Okay. Let's zoom out. Why do we need air traffic control at all? Well, pretty much for the same reason we need traffic lights. With enough planes in the sky, it gets unsafe and you need a way to figure out who goes where and whose turn it is. There are multiple levels of air traffic control, we'll get to that later. But let's start at the airport. Michael worked in a tower at Detroit Metro Airport for years. Detroit is a big complicated airfield. It's got six runways, hundreds of flight a day. To handle all that, the controllers in the cab are split into three roles.

Michael: 2:48

So there's a clearance delivery section and then three ground controls and three local controls.

Dan: 2:56

Okay. A little more about each of those roles. Clearance delivery gives pilots their flight plans before the planes ever leave the gate. Local control is in charge of clearing planes for takeoff and for landing. And in between is ground control. The controllers who direct planes taxiing between the gate and the runway.

Michael: 3:18

Ground control... Man, you are you're busy. You couldn't sit down. There was

Dan: 3:23

Yeah.

Michael: 3:24

If you sat down, you were you were missing something.

Dan: 3:27

And I know that one of the things that you're always thinking about is what's the right kind of rhythm or flow of of aircraft? Because on one hand, if you get too safety conscious and and create massive buffers between planes, then you get clogs and people can't get to their relatives' weddings and go see their sick grandma, you know, so that's a problem. But if you cram in too many planes, you're obviously creating a safety risk. Like, how do you kind of balance those those tensions?

Michael: 4:03

Well, that's that's exactly what it is. It's a very delicate balance between safety first and then efficiency. And it's always a constant calculation that you're running. If you have optimal conditions where, you know, it's clear in a million, you know, meaning you can see everywhere, the sky is blue, very calm wind, you know, nothing really there to obstruct the optimal flow of air traffic. All of your equipment is working properly, you know, Detroit's arrival rate is like a 132 flights an hour.

Dan: 4:47

Okay. So that's like a measure that you're thinking about Yeah. Is flights per hour, okay.

Michael: 4:52

Yeah. Yeah. Because it's all time based, you know. How much time does it take from the flight that's on five mile final to touch down on the ground? How much time does it take for it after it touches down on the ground to turn off the runway on the high speed taxiways, you know? So there's all of these things that you're constantly balancing in your mind, and and when it's perfect weather, hey man, it's like clockwork. Things are are smooth, it's a well oiled machine, everybody's working together, it's great. But when that anomaly comes into play, like you start getting some clouds on final or, you know, you get fog, it all starts to slow down. That's where the efficiency starts to decrease because of the actual conditions that make it unsafe.

Dan: 5:49

That's really helpful. Actually, I hadn't thought about it through that lens. It's almost like a volume knob. Or in this case, instead of volume, it's flow, where if conditions are perfect, you can kinda crank it up because it merits efficiency.

Michael: 6:03

Yeah.

Dan: 6:03

But as things degrade for various reasons, you've gotta kinda dial it back and increase the safety factor.

Michael: 6:10

Right.

Dan: 6:11

Michael told me about a time when they had to turn down the quote unquote flow knob because of weather. A thunderstorm had just rolled off the airfield in Detroit. Departures had been frozen, and Michael was in the tower working local control. So remember, it's the local controllers that are clearing planes for takeoff and landing.

Michael: 6:33

We had a heavy Airbus. It was a a three fifty nine. They were taxied out. They contacted me at local control, and I had just gotten word from the TRACON that, hey, your departures are released.

Dan: 6:50

TRACON, by the way, is the radar facility that handles planes once they're in the air around the airport. So they're the next link in the chain after the tower. Alright. So Michael clears the Airbus to take off on Runway 22 left with an immediate hard left turn to dodge the storm. Meanwhile, another plane, a CRJ, with about 60 people on board, was also ready for departure, and Michael gave them instructions.

Michael: 7:18

And I said SkyWest one twenty five hotel, [uintelligible] Tower, Runway 21 Right, line up and wait, caution wake turbulence, traffic, heavy Airbus departing two two left eastbound.

Dan: 7:30

Okay. So Michael is basically saying to the CRJ, hold up. You're not cleared for takeoff yet. Because he knew the Airbus was going to cut across the flight path of the CRJ. So the Airbus takes off.

Michael: 7:45

And he is in a an almost an immediate left hand turn to avoid flying through the worst part of the thunderstorm that just moved off of the airfield to the south. So I look over there, I see that happening, and then I look over at 21 right, and I see the CRJ about 500 feet in the air halfway down the runway.

Dan: 8:14

Michael realizes the CRJ did not line up and wait. It took off with the Airbus right in its path.

Michael: 8:22

And I am like, what the heck? You know, and everybody in the tower looks right at that CRJ. And they're like, holy smokes, you know, like, there were some curse words in there.

Dan: 8:36

I suspect the language is a little worse.

Michael: 8:38

Yes. And I was like, SkyWest one twenty five hotel caution wake turbulence heavy airbus crossing right to left, turn right immediately. Basically, like, what the hell are you doing, you know? But my heart sank because I'm thinking, did I do something wrong? And then I go back to the CRJ and I'm like, SkyWest one twenty five hotel, I don't ever recall giving you a clearance for takeoff.

Dan: 9:04

Yeah. Oh, man.

Michael: 9:05

I'll never forget it. You know, and then I went back to the Airbus after I realized it was no factor because I'm trying to, like, peel the CRJ away from them, but I, you know, switched the the heavy Airbus that was, you know, going to Korea to departure, so they were radars control, and I I held on to the the CRJ. He remained on my frequency, and we have to give him like a a brasher warning, which is like, hey, possible pilot deviation, you know, I have a phone number advisory to copy, blah blah blah. So they write that down.

Dan: 9:34

What what does all that mean? Is that just like you might be in big trouble, bub, basically, or

Michael: 9:39

Yeah. But here's the thing, like, we as controllers in instances like that, we are not the police. We don't place blame or fault because that is not the time for it. You don't do any of those things on the frequency because you don't want to affect the psychological state of the pilots, like, they're thinking, oh my god, I made a mistake and that's not good and I'm gonna get into trouble and I'm gonna, you know, have my pilot's license suspended. You don't wanna do any of those things because

Dan: 10:18

Yeah.

Michael: 10:19

They have people on their plane. That is not the place for it. So that's where we we give out that phone number. Once they get to their destination, they call it, and then the information is handled at that point. And then there's an investigation, and then then, you know, we figure out what happens.

Dan: 10:37

And how close did the two planes get in this situation?

Michael: 10:40

I don't know. I'm telling you, it looked like it was five hundred feet.

Dan: 10:46

Oh my gosh.

Michael: 10:47

I don't know what it was. It could have been much further than that, but it was too close. And I went back, my supervisor was like, you screwed up, you screwed up. And I'm like, no, I didn't, I know what I said, you know. But there's still like that little bit of doubt in the back of your mind, right? But I, man, after I got off position, ran downstairs and I listened to to the tapes. I checked the tapes, that's something that we say, you know, when we're we're trying to, like, defend ourselves. Like, check the tapes, you know, because everything's recorded. I went downstairs, I was right. He took off without a clearance.

Dan: 11:22

What was the aftermath of that like for you? Like, how do you I mean, did you go back to work after that?

Michael: 11:29

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I went back like thirty minutes later.

Dan: 11:33

Woah. I mean, how do you kinda settle your emotions after something like that happens?

Michael: 11:43

You know, I guess you kinda like, you kinda stick it away, you know?

Dan: 11:50

Mhmm.

Michael: 11:51

And I'm sorry I'm getting a little emotional, but when you think about air traffic, and it's not like, I'm not getting emotional for this particular instance, but just

Dan: 12:03

Yeah.

Michael: 12:03

Overall, right? It's like, in the terminal environment, like, things happen immediately. Right? If there's a mistake made, the consequences are immediate. You see them immediately.

Dan: 12:20

I mean, the the thing that strikes me so much about this job is it is so routine and there's an order and there's a protocol and there are clear communications and, I mean, it must almost lull you into, you know, habit, but you also have to have this kind of maniacal focus at the same time because if you slip, like the pilot, thinking he had clearance when he didn't have it, people can die instantly.

Michael: 12:46

Yeah.

Dan: 12:46

And lots of people How do you maintain that intense focus when from day to day, nothing is happening, like everything is going in an orderly way.

Michael: 12:57

Yeah. You have to know that at any moment, something can happen. And if you have a plan, you can adapt and react.

Dan: 13:10

Mhmm.

Michael: 13:11

If you don't have a plan, it is so difficult to crawl out of that. And as far as dealing with the stress, I mean, some people put it away and it's demanding you to be on all the time. You have to be performing at your highest level every single time you're on position keying the mic. And I don't think people really realize how how tough that can be.

Dan: 13:48

After a short break, the one phrase that makes every controller in the room pause and look up.

Dallas Taylor: 13:56

I'm Dallas Taylor, host of the Twenty Thousand Hertz podcast. On our show, sound designers, musicians, and experts reveal the secrets behind the most iconic sounds in the world. From the "I'm lovin' it" jingle to the sound effects of Star Wars, from the Netflix "tudum", to the music and sounds of Zelda. To unlock your sonic world, follow Twenty Thousand Hertz right here in your podcast player.

Dan: 14:27

Well, let's flip to the other side of the spectrum. I mean, it sounds like just a crazy stressful job, intense focus, big stakes, but there's something about it that appeals to you clearly. Like what what is it?

Michael: 14:41

It's the adrenaline that you get, the problems that are new that you have the ability to solve.

Dan: 14:53

Mhmm.

Michael: 14:54

And I think humans really enjoy that for the most part. I mean, some people are gonna say, oh, I hate solving problems, I just I want it to be easy. It's like, well, okay, well, maybe air traffic's not for you, you know? But it really is, you're always solving problems, you're always using your brain, thinking about different scenarios and trying to maximize the safety while balancing that efficiency.

Dan: 15:19

Give me like an example if one comes to mind, just to give us a sense of what you're talking about, those moment to moment problem solving.

Michael: 15:25

So I'll use, you know, ground control at Detroit for as an example, you know.

Dan: 15:30

Yeah.

Michael: 15:31

You have different spacing between your aircraft departures. Right?

Dan: 15:36

Mhmm.

Michael: 15:37

If you have two aircraft that are going out the same departure gate, they need five miles in between one another so that it's manageable for the radar controller to control them. They're not too close. Right?

Dan: 15:52

Okay.

Michael: 15:53

So, you know, this happened quite often at Detroit where you would get six or seven planes that you're sequencing to the the West Departure Runway, and they have three different departure fixes that they're going to be passing through after they they get in the air. Well, you you don't wanna put all of those aircraft back to back that are going out the same gates. Right? You wanna kinda we call it sequence. You wanna sequence where they are on the ground so that your local controller, all they have to do is just say clear for takeoff, and they don't have to worry about that spacing because the first guy is going out due West, the second departure is going to the Southwest, and then the third departure is going to the South. And then you just start that all over again. By the time that you get

Dan: 16:49

Oh I see.

Michael: 16:50

Yeah, by the time that you get to that fourth aircraft that is going due west, you have maybe 12 miles between those two aircraft, which is plenty of space for that radar controller to use to manage the departures without being too close.

Dan: 17:06

Oh, that helps me understand like the puzzle aspect of it. Yeah. It's like you're you're just trying to build in these almost natural buffers between different planes by clever sequencing.

Michael: 17:17

Right. And you would do that on the ground by, you know, those departures aren't all coming from taxing out of the same spot, they're in different areas. So you you might have to, you know, hold one short of a certain taxiway so that the guy that's going due south can pass him, and then you tuck the due westbound guy behind him, right? So

Dan: 17:37

Right.

Michael: 17:38

So it's kind of

Dan: 17:38

Yeah.

Michael: 17:39

You're kind of creating like a stoplight on the ground, on the movement area at the terminal.

Dan: 17:46

Michael doesn't work in a tower at an airport anymore. He's been promoted to a place most people have never heard of, the FAA's air traffic control system command center, just outside of Washington DC. So bear with me here. We talked about the airports, then TRACON, which is the airspace around the airport. Then there are en route centers, which handle big stretches of sky and hand off planes like a relay race. There are 20 of them in the Continental US. Cleveland Center, New York Center, and so forth. Where Michael works now, the command center sits above all of this. The top of the food chain, the fourth level of air traffic control. Airports, TRACON, en route centers, and the command center. The command center is critical because it's trying to keep a problem in one part of the system from cascading throughout the whole thing. Kinda like you don't want a traffic jam in one spot to paralyze the whole city's flow of cars. The command center can help reroute planes around problem areas.

Michael: 18:59

So we'll say, okay, hey, New York Center, we see you have some weather there. Can we move some of these flights up through Boston that are coming from Cleveland and you decrease your miles-in-trail request from Cleveland so that we're not holding planes on the ground at O'Hare?

Dan: 19:18

miles-in-trail, that's padding. The distance between planes. Sort of like the knob idea we talked about earlier, when conditions deteriorate, you want more padding. That's more miles-in-trail.

Michael: 19:34

And they'll say, yeah, sure. Let's talk to Boston. So we talked to Boston Center, Boston Center says, yeah, sure. We'll take some Cleveland's flights, know, Cleveland, you give us 20 in trail, 20 miles in between each of those flights. So Cleveland kinda works with Boston then, and they they essentially like create a new highway in the sky on a route that's kind of already there. So it's basically, like, creating a little bit of a detour to decrease that bottleneck in the miles-in-trail that's passed back. Right.

Dan: 20:07

Right. Right. So it's sort of like on Google Maps, like, there's a clog on some interstate highway, like, Google Maps is crafty enough to tell you, okay, take this feeder road, go around. It's a Circuitous route, but it's still, number one, helping you, but also helping the system flow.

Michael: 20:25

Right. And I I guess in this that particular scenario there that you presented, the command center picks the route for you.

Dan: 20:32

Yeah.

Michael: 20:32

So the command center tells the driver, okay, you're looking at Google Maps, you've got twenty four minutes, twenty six minutes, and thirty minutes. Alright. You know, Joe, you're coming from Cleveland, you're gonna take the twenty four minute route. Tim, you're gonna take the twenty seven minute route, and Fred, you're gonna take the thirty minute route, and it's all gonna blend in.

Dan: 20:53

The other big thing the command center does is watch the weather. They have the National Weather Service embedded right there in the building, forecasters who do nothing but track aviation weather. So when a line of thunderstorms is bearing down on a major airport like O'Hare, Michael knows almost to the minute when it's gonna hit and how long it will sit there. The question is what to do about all the planes already heading that way and all the ones about to take off.

Michael: 21:23

So the command center will say, alright, well, we already have these flights in the air and we don't want anything to to get airborne that will be affected by weather by the time they get there, so we put out what's called a first tier ground stop.

Dan: 21:45

Mhmm.

Michael: 21:46

So we will tell all of the the adjacent centers that are within an hour flying time of Chicago O'Hare, hey, keep all of your O'Hare flights on the ground due to thunderstorms.

Dan: 22:03

So you're the ground stop people?

Michael: 22:05

Yes. The ground stop yeah. I'm I'm the ground stop and the ground delay programs and the airspace flow programs.

Dan: 22:15

Well, before you leave the Chicago one, I'm just curious, like, if you have a flight coming from Korea to land at O'Hare and, you know, obviously, when they left, the the thunderstorm may not have been foreseeable. Do they still land or or what happens?

Michael: 22:29

No. If the weather is directly impacting them and they're not comfortable landing through the weather, then they will hold. That's why we put that ground stop out at the command center to Minimize the amount of aircraft that are going to hold, and really, are going to have the potential to divert to one of their alternate airports.

Dan: 22:52

And the pilot from Korea, like, if they wanted to land in the thunderstorm, is it up to them or are you saying, no, don't even try?

Michael: 23:00

No. It is it is the pilot's decision.

Dan: 23:03

Oh, wow.

Michael: 23:03

It is it is up to the pilot to land.

Dan: 23:06

Okay.

Michael: 23:07

We're air traffic controllers, we're not pilots.

Dan: 23:09

Yeah.

Michael: 23:10

We don't make decisions for them in that regard. You know, they are in charge of their aircraft and responsible for their passengers and that decision is ultimately up to them.

Dan: 23:21

What do you think is the biggest misconception people have about air traffic controllers?

Michael: 23:26

I I think one of the biggest misconceptions is, you know, that we control everything and and that's not always the case, you know. We're not trying to delay your flight, we're not trying to cause you to miss your connection. I do think people need to realize that it is a very very complex and large system and ten to fifteen minutes of delay in the morning for your first flight of the day turns into potentially an hour and a half for that flight and that crew at their end of the day.

Dan: 24:02

Mhmm.

Michael: 24:03

So that's where it's like it cascades. I mean, you can't you can't really make all of that time up.

Dan: 24:09

So Michael, we always end our episodes with a quick lightning round of questions. Here we go. What is a word or phrase that only someone from your profession would be likely to know, and what does it mean? Gosh, I bet you've got about a thousand choices here.

Michael: 24:24

Yeah, I do. Well, I we could say no joy, that means I don't have the traffic in sight, or sometimes pilots will say, tally ho, I have the traffic in sight.

Dan: 24:37

No joy and tally ho.

Michael: 24:39

Yeah. The pilot would use no joy in the scenario where the controller has pointed out traffic to them that they're either to follow or avoid, and the pilot will say, no joy, we don't see that aircraft to follow, no joy. No joy on the traffic. And then when they do see them, they might say, tally ho, we got him in sight, we'll follow him or we'll avoid.

Dan: 25:09

What phrase or sentence strikes fear in the heart of an air traffic controller?

Michael: 25:14

I'd like to declare an emergency.

Dan: 25:17

Oh. And who would would would the pilot be saying that, or your colleague, or what?

Michael: 25:21

Yeah. The pilot would be saying that.

Dan: 25:22

Oh, okay. Okay.

Michael: 25:23

I don't know that it strikes fear, but that's where you're putting your hand up in the air and snapping your fingers trying to get the sup's attention or get somebody's attention, you know, hey, and you're you're doing that as the pilot saying it, right?

Dan: 25:37

Yeah.

Michael: 25:37

Hey, this is Delta one thirty two heavy, I'd like to declare an emergency, we've got engine one out, you know, That's getting your attention.

Dan: 25:44

You know what? When we talked to the pilot, we talked to a commercial pilot who's been working for thirty five plus years, and he had one of those situations where one of his engines caught on fire. And so I imagine that would be a call you would get. Right?

Michael: 25:58

Yeah. Absolutely.

Dan: 26:00

And so what happens from there?

Michael: 26:02

So at that point, you know, the controller is getting information from the pilot, you know, what's the nature of the emergency, what are your desires, souls on board, fuel remaining in pounds, you know, we're we're getting some very brief information when they have time. We're trying not to talk to them as little as we can because we know that they're running checklists, going through everything that they need to do to make sure that they're going to operate their aircraft the way that they're supposed to. So we're

Dan: 26:31

Yeah.

Michael: 26:31

We're trying to leave them alone, but while all of those things are going on with a pilot in air traffic side in the background, we are, like I said, getting that supervisor's attention, getting another controller's attention and saying, hey, this guy's got an emergency, he's gonna be going to Dulles and we need to clear the airspace because he needs a straight in right now, you know. He lost an engine or something to that effect.

Dan: 26:58

What is an aspect of your work that you consistently savor?

Michael: 27:02

I really savor and cherish being able to help people get to where they need to go. I really enjoy that and every decision I make, I have that in the front of my mind is how do I get these people where they need to go, you know. Life happens and sometimes you need to you need to get places. A wedding, a funeral, go back home from your work trip. I really am honored to be able to help the country and the flying public get to where they need to go.

Dan: 27:41

And this is one of we we've talked to other people who have jobs that have this characteristic, but this is one of those jobs where you only really notice it when there's a problem or a catastrophe.

Michael: 27:53

Yeah. We have a phrase in air traffic, and it's kinda sad in a way, but we always say that you are only as good as your last transmission. So you could be the best damn controller in the world, but if you make a mistake, that's what everybody's gonna hear.

Dan: 28:24

Michael Rejent is an air traffic controller. He currently works at the FAA's command center near Washington DC. You're only as good as your last transmission. That vigilant focus is the heart of what air traffic controllers do. It reminded me of the ocean lifeguard we talked to in the sense of constantly having to fight complacency and stay alert. And that got me thinking about other kinds of focus. Think about the brain surgeon for instance. Hours of sustained focus during a surgery. Notice that kind of focus feels different. It's more of a constant performance oriented focus, more like an athlete in a game versus the lifeguard's focus which has more of a monitoring quality. The brain surgeon isn't monitoring, he's doing something intensely. But then, the surgery is over or the game is over and the focus can stop. Unlike in Michael's situation where it's always on. All this made me a little curious. Are there any professions where focus can be a detriment to the work? I couldn't come up with anything, so I ran it by Claude and it actually came up with a great example, psychoanalysts. They're apparently taught to withhold focus. Withhold focus for fear that they will unwittingly bias what they're hearing or latch on to some particular comment or theme. Sigmund Freud advocated for evenly hovering attention. Isn't that a great phrase? And it's such a contrast with the ocean lifeguard who is actively scanning for swimmers exhibiting warning signs like they're facing the shore and they have hair in their face. So maybe this is one way we can distinguish professions by looking at the shape of focus that they require. Looking out the tower window to catch what radar misses, sequencing departures like a moving puzzle, balancing safety and efficiency, and turning a crowded sky into a choreography. Folks, that's what it's like to be an air traffic controller. This episode was produced by Matt Purdy. I'm Dan Heath. See you next time.